Embracing Your Curly Hair w/ my mom!

Hello hello, welcome to Episode 73 of Life on the Brink!

Today I'm joined again by a very special guest, my mom, Lisi Perkins! It's been a while since we chatted on the podcast, and today we're talking about something very important: hair. My mom is Puerto Rican/Panamanian and had a decades-long struggle with her curly hair until about 10 years ago. Likewise, I've gone through my own curly hair journey as I tried to understand my hair's texture. Well, now we both LOVE our curly hair and are spreading that love to you!

In this episode we talk all about:
-how we both came to embrace our hair
-the official Curly Girl method and how we both use it
-affordable curly hair products
-horror hair stories and lessons learned
-hair cuts and routines for anyone with wavy or curly hair

Plus, my mom shares not one, but TWO Little Joys, and I share a sweet album of instrumental music that perfectly bridges the almost-not-quite holiday season we're in.

For the complete show notes, click here!
For full transcript, click here!


Site: lifeonthebrink.live
Social: @anna_on_the_keys

Transcript

Unknown: 0:07

Welcome to Life on the brink, a lovely little place filled with inspiration and creativity that is dedicated to enjoying life one day at a time. I'm Ana. And together, we're exploring the beautiful things in this world that fascinate us. And often discovering something new. And know everyone, welcome to episode 73 of life on the brink. I hope you're doing well. Happy November. Hope you had a fun weekend and a start to the new month. This is when it starts to get you know, we're in the end of the year now and it can go quickly. So I just invite us all to take a nice deep breath. Huh, there we go. And enjoy today. Enjoy this day hope you're having a nice day. I'm going to keep this short and sweet because we have a very fun episode. Kind of different, but with a returning guest. Today I'm joined by my mom, again, I spoke with my mom all the way back on Episode 34, we were talking about planning a wedding on a budget. That's a very fun episode. And she's joining me again today because we're talking about something else that we have in common, besides loving weddings. And that is curly hair. So I know this isn't an audio format, you can't really see what I look like, unless you go to the show notes. And there's pictures, but I have pretty curly hair. It has gone in various amounts of curl. But we talk a lot about it today, and how we have come to embrace our curly hair. Because it's a journey, I'm sure like everyone's hair journey. And so if you're someone who has a little bit of curl a little bit of wave or you think that there's just weird texture to your hair, don't know where to begin. We are covering all of that. We had a nice long chat, so please make sure you have something nice, warm comforting to drink. We're both drinking various teas during the interview. And I invite you to get comfy. And don't worry as we talk about various products and links. And there's a book we talk about. All of that will be linked in the show notes at life on the brink dot live. That's where you can find the blog post for every episode of the podcast. So without further ado, here's my conversation with my mom all about our curly hair journey. Okay, hi, mom. Hi, honey. Hi. Welcome back to life on the brain. Thank you. We are talking today about curly hair. Yes. Which is funny, because probably you taught me all the things I know. Knowing now you can just teach everybody else. And so now we've got our T I've got my questions, and the listeners won't be able to see it. But we have our various hair products across the table so we can reference them. So first, let's just sort of try to describe our hair. Because there's many different kinds of curly hair. Usually they're classified with like a number, but it's I'm I'm let I understand this list. So how do you understand the type of curl that you have? Well, the charts that I've seen online, there was a hairstylist named Andre I can't remember his last name. And he designed I believe a that drawing system, that curly hair system that people refer to a lot where you have number one, hair is straight. Number two is the wavy category number three is curly. And then number four, sometimes it's classified as kinky. And then within each number is I don't think there's any subgroups for one, they're all straight, but then ABC. And so I've always found my hair is between A to C and A three A which is the curliest of the wavy hair and of the curly category, the least curly and around the framing my face is the very very curly hair, the hair in the back tends to be more wavy. Yours is opposite of that. Yeah. So what I was looking at charts before we were talking about this, and I think that mine falls more towards a to b Maybe CEREC I'm sorry to see in some of the places because some of the stuff around my face is a little looser. And then sometimes it's because the stuff in the very back is also less curly. So I think it's mostly at the ends. And depending on the cut, just sort of all around can be more curly versus wavy. Because I have your hair but just calm down with dad's what his hair is just like kind of wavy, like Yeah, so if you saw pictures of your dad in high school, he had long feathered straight hair. So his team hair mixed with my curly hair kind of gave you just like this perfect hair. Um, well, it wasn't always perfect, because I had some rough years in the in elementary school, and he didn't really know. We didn't know how to do my hair. But before we get to me, I'd like to know, when about did you start to like really try to embrace your curly hair. Yeah, rather than fight it. Yeah, I was literally in my 30s my hair is a combination of my dad's hair, he is Panamanian. He and his sisters have what would be considered like a kinky type of hair. They would actually relax their hair chemically even. And then my mom's hair very, very straight. And so I have a really curly hair, but it's not. Not like the coil. It's not the coyly kinky type hair. And so that's why your hair than with, you know, mixed with your dad's hair is even a little bit looser curl. Still, in some ways, I thought more manageable. We didn't realize your hair was as curly as it was, I guess we'll get to that later. But I grew up always fighting my curl. I didn't know at all how to take care of it. I remember as a teenager, using a curling iron to try and curl my hair and make it go the ways I wanted it to go. Because I couldn't tame it. I remember my mom taking me one time to get a short shag cut. She said Just give her a shag cut. I didn't know what that meant. Oh my gosh. Lisa ended up with a little afro, which, again, not knowing how to take care of it probably could have been real, real cute. But I just I got teased, I was told I had put activator in my hair. I didn't even know what that meant. But I just it was just unruly, and I didn't know what to do with it. And so I let it grow. Oh, terrible thing I did in trying to make it make it obey. I actually had my hair permed into a spiral term. In the early 2000s I don't know perms work. But oh my word Lenny to me. And it gets worse because I told your dad I wanted it to be spirally permed. And I even though my hair was curly, it just wasn't going in the right direction. And he got me. I remember it was in just this long strip of receipt paper and got me credit the hair cuttery to go get a spiral perm. And I play permed my whole head of curly hair in spiral perm. And it was disastrous, it was just coyly tight and took months to relax. And it just this was just me like kept it. Or yeah, I didn't know what I was till I learned from Legally Blonde is that if you wash it out in the first 24 hours, I don't think it's gonna see I don't think that we had come out yet. Maybe I would have known to do something. And so even though I would let you know, let my hair grow out long, I might wear it curly one day thinking, Okay, looks kind of nice. The very next day, I'd have to have it up in a bun or a ponytail because it just felt all snuggly, and frizzy and out of control. And so that's just kind of I did the best I could. And then I had a friend. I don't know I was in my 30s Y'all were in high school. And she she said, Have you ever heard of the curly girl method? And I had never heard of that? And I said, Nope, don't know what you're talking about. And she said, you might find it interesting. And she was the friend who mentioned it to me is black. And so I thought well, I don't know if if it's going to be compatible or whatever. But she told me to check out this. This method and the woman's name is Lorraine Massey, and it was this method for curly hair. She changed my life. I told my friend Lisa, I've told her since I said You changed my life. You changed my hair. And since then, you know I've gotten a grasp on my hair. I love my hair. But I mean I was fighting with it all that time. Gotcha. Okay, so yeah, from my perspective, I grew up not even, we didn't even consider the fact that my hair would be curly, and we just sort of brushed it out. And I had bangs, and it was just big and frizzy and like, just puffy. And so I think one time, we had to leave the hair salon, I got a hair cut, but then they had, we like left, my hair was wet, and that had never happened. And so you said, I have a moose. Let's put this moose in it. And then all of a sudden, all these curls and waves came through, and we were like, Oh, what do you know. And I think that's even after I decided I wanted to stop having bangs. So my ongoing struggle was simply with volume in the right places. And versus like, triangle head, you know, where it's just the way down. So I had very long hair in high school, like down to my hips, and the curls were gorgeous. But then sometimes it would be weighed down so much, because I think of the cut I got. And then in college, it was very short. So the curls were more there. But I also think that the shape of it was good some days and some not. But now I have recently gotten a haircut that I really, really love. And that I feel is the best suit for my hair type. But yeah, I we both have it's so funny. Looking at the table here, we've both got very different products that we use. And so I'd like to kind of get into that. So what is the basis of the curly girl method as you use it? Okay, so Well, like I said, the creator of this method, or she's credited with it is Lorraine Massey, and she wrote a book called The curly girl handbook. We have a copy looking at us right here with a step by step DVD included Yes, which I've never watched. But between that reading that book cover to cover and then at the time there was a YouTuber named Water Lily 716 And I watched a bunch of her videos I looked her up last night and realize she stopped posting videos about five years ago, but her curl type was very similar to mine. And so and she would test out different products and things and so I found it just really really helpful but the basically the core method is you do not shampoo your hair it's all about conditioning and moisture that the that frizzy curly hair that the frizz is the hair reaching out seeking out moisture and which I thought was kind of funny but even the cleansing process you don't use traditional shampoo and that's when I learned about sulfates that you know strip the hair and yes What are sulfates? Will sulfates are they what do they do gradients that they put in shampoo that that's what it does? It strips the hair of every dirt and particles but also the healthy Yeah, all the oils and everything. I don't think anything feels more uncomfortable than washing hair with sulfate shampoo. Now it's the My hair feels like an absolute like, like a huge pull up clog a hair out of your stages. This tight, just dry just awful. It's horrible feeling. And oh, you know what? I just realized I was probably about 11 or 12 When my cousin introduced me to conditioner. I'd never even heard of conditioner. When I was little I would just use it was shampoo. And then you were not at the hair. I didn't even know the concept of conditioner. Well, that seemed magical. To me as a child, you got us that part two and one and well, at least we still do. And one right? Well with this method, you learn how to cleanse your hair with certain conditioners, then condition your hair, then it's just multiple levels of conditioning and then using styling products that helped you kind of retain the natural curl shape, rather than undo the curl shape. And then just you know how to how to retain that. But essentially, it's a several levels of just conditioning. So it's just all about moisture, big time. Okay, yeah. So what are the products that you like, take us through your process? Okay, so what I basically learned there's a lot of products out now and the curly girl method is more well known, but I was always looking for less expensive products. Yeah, because there's lots of them. And, and making it a simpler process because I wasn't, you know, it's already a little bit time consuming. But if you do it right, you can retain your curls for several days. It's not like a daily thing. That's the other thing. There's you Don't shampoo your hair every single day. It's just very different from what I was used to. So to cleanse my hair, the the go to has been for years now, believe it or not suave coconut conditioner. I'll actually use that and work that through I grew to cleanse my scalp and all the hair and everything and rinse that out and that's considered my cleansing that will be shampoos indeed, you know clean your hair it does now okay and this may not be true to the system itself. Now I find more and more products that'll say they're sulfate free and they're silicone free. Those are the two ingredients that you stay away from. One is because it strips and then the other the cones the ones that end in cone, they like add a build up of silicone on the hair. So I'm always looking for sulfate free and silicone free and I'm finding more and more products where it'll even be a sulfate free cleanser shampoo. And as well as an also a sulfate free silicone free conditioner. And I feel comfortable using those Okay, yeah, yeah, but but even if I don't have that the suave coconut conditioner is the go to to cleanse then the conditioning product who Yeah, is the product I love it and I can't find it anymore. I just ordered some on Amazon and I'm seeing that you have an alternative I don't get this. Yeah, I would always get the Tres Samay condition or coconut conditioner and it says on there it says well this is paraben free I think it would say specifically sulfate so comfrey but it was the Tresemme may coconut and aloe conditioner. Okay, and that has had been my very very favorite the slip on it the way your hair slips once you put that conditioner in was just fantastic. My favorite but I haven't been able to find it for a long time on the on the shelves. I just ordered some today because I went looking on Amazon and now I'm looking at yours. I have this is the trust me flawless curls coconut essence. Yeah, and I have not I also use TRESemme name as a conditioner. But I haven't been particular as to I think I've used the moisture one you're talking about the coconut one. And I don't know I get them at Target. And so I saw the flawless curls. I was like that sounds good. So I don't know. I think it's I see and I wonder if they've brought that out in replacing of the other one. I don't know. I learned about the true estimate the coconut conditioner from the water lilies 716 sight and I love it. But since I haven't been able to find it for a while sometimes I wouldn't have that step. So I would condition with I just will look for a conditioner that has no soap no silicones no sulfates sulfates is the cleansing but no gotcha okay, but then once you get out of the water, a couple of important steps you do not dry with a terry cloth towel. See and I have yet to join this step I'm gonna let you dry with a cotton with just cotton and almost everybody would use like a cotton shirt. I have two shirts, they're actually two of your brother's shirts when he was little, but I will use those to just squeeze dry my hair. Okay, so what what's the rationale behind not using a towel? Well, the idea is that you do the least disturbing of the curls as possible. Okay, and so the idea is that terrycloth towels will begin the freezing process a little bit okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So I squeezed with the cotton shirt, and then you put in your leave in conditioner. So this is like the third conditioner and my absolute favorite is this product called Not Today I buy mine at Target Kinky Curly as the brand and then not today k n o t naught is the natural leaving the ingredients on this is all or I say you could eat this is like organic fruits and marshmallows and I don't know what else but um, it's a great product and this actually is probably the most expensive thing that I will buy and this is about $13 and it lasts me quite a while so I'm telling you I do a very budgeted system here and it works great. So that's what I do leave in conditioner as my leavin Okay, and then I will only use a hair pick to detangle my hair. I'll have done that in the shower. Now once I put my leaving conditioner, then you begin the scrunching everything is trenching. Okay, so then I put my styling product what I've been using lately is by the company called curls, and it's their creme brulee whipped Curl Cream. Yeah. And so this is a curl cream that will define the curls and begin the styling process. I just really like it smells good. And when you put it in, you're always scrunching scrunching scrunching scrunching then the final styling product So that's a Curl Cream Curl Cream. And this step is probably, I mean, sometimes I can take it or leave it. But this was part of the original curly girl process, you would use a gel. They were big on using a gel. This is by the same company curls. It's called Blue, blueberry bliss, curl control jelly. And I'll take that gel and keep the scrunching going make sure it's on the tips. And then because what will happen is the gel will it does or does no it does Yeah. smells yummy. It will eventually form a cast because then the styling after I've put the products in and scrunched them all in, I do use a diffuser, well this is a hairdryer, right? This is why I will use only do this curly hair process every for me like four or five days, I can I can get it to last a while. So I use a diffuser on the hairdryer, it will never be totally dried till like the next day, like my very first day of curl actually don't love it. It's like the next day. It's like ideal. And so once your hair is dry, and that gel is formed a cast, then you just scrunch the hair break the cast, and it just helps that curl to stay more defined. And so you are able to blow dry your hair with the diffuser. And it's doesn't get frizzy. Correct. That's nice. What do you use? The heat and the power settings? Do you remember? Nothing fancy? I mean, like do you do I too warm or I do the warm. And for times sake, I do it like on the fastest the strongest setting, but I do it on the warm. Sometimes if I can be more patient, it's better on the medium setting, so it's not blowing quite as hard. But you just let it sit anyway, the last part of the process of losing weight. So to recap it, okay, I'm sorry, your cleansing stage? Would you use a swab, then a conditioning in the shower? Yeah, then you dry, you use a pick in the shower, then you dry with only cotton? Yes, and then leave in conditioner, then you have a styling cream and a gel just diffuse and then diffuse. And then that's pretty much it. I mean, it's not going to be completely dry down to the scalp for me until the next day. There is one other little thing that I learned from the water lilies 716. Girl. These What do you call these these ups? I don't really know what you'd call the it's not a jaw clip. It's like a styling clip. Yeah, these these metal styling clips I got in the show notes. It's like you know what they sort of like clamped down, it would hurt hold like curlers in or something. Yeah, if you were to do like pin curls, it would be those clips, well, sometimes I will use these just before I'm going to do the diffuser stage. Because I want to get a little lift on the crown of of my head and kind of tell the curls where to go in relation to my part parts on the side. So I make I saw might put about four or five of these in to kind of lift the hair at the at the root. And, you know, have it go on the direction that I want. But then once you're done diffusing, I have to take these out very carefully because again, to not disturb it did disturb the curl and gets frizz and all like that. Interesting. Yeah. And so that's one step. Sometimes I'll do that in order to just kind of train the curl where I want it to dry. Because yeah, now okay, or Lorraine Massey, who did this curly girl book. I'm not entirely sure if she is the originator of the diva cut and the diva curl products they basically the diva cut is this type of hair cut that a hairstylist is has to be certified in or whatever trained to give the particular diva cut and then there's and then they use the diva curl hair products. And they have a diffuser they like to use it's kind of in the shape of a hand and oh, I've seen though Yeah, and all that stuff. So I don't know if they just use the curly girl method theories, or if it's, you know, own and started by the same lady. I really don't know. But I did actually go to a salon in Washington DC called fiddleheads. Because they have certified diva cut stylists. This is actually a question on my list. So okay, and got this cut. I guess I thought of it because of the diffuse. Yeah, I mean, you think of that. And what they do is they do this curly girl method on you. But when they come to the cutting process, they really study your curl style, your curl shape and all and then cut the hair they've trained to cut the hair to maximize the volume and to give you they cut your hair curl by curl essentially. And it was a cute cut. I enjoyed it. It was nice. It was pricey and I don't I don't feel like I got the trick information that I saw maybe some others get with that diva cut. But the diva curl products are great products. But they're pricey as they are, you can find those at Ulta. Those are great, you know, if you want to buy those early on, when I was doing this process, the gel that was recommended a lot was just by herbal essence. And it made a strong cast that you could just break I just the gel stage, I don't do quite as much. Okay, so ultimately, it's like, it's five products and like a couple of steps. But you said you do that maybe you can do like four or five days, right? If from start to finish from the shower to the end of the process, probably about 45 minutes, but then I will be able to maintain that for five days. How do you maintain it? Like how do you sleep on it? The most important thing is you I mean, a lot of people will use a satin pillowcase. But I find it's easier to use a satin hairball on it. And I've recently got a new one that I really love. And it's very, very big and spacious. Look like you just Baker flip your head upside down and tuck everything in, or do you have how do you get the curls in there without disturbing it. Usually I just throw my my head in. Although it's funny, because some of the tighter bonnets, if I throw my head over if it was on that first day, it'll kind of continue to dry settle a little bit and it'll be kind of goofy. Yeah, so sometimes we'll catch the hair from underneath and bring the bonnet up. But that I don't know, it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. But I sleep with the bonnet on every night. And that way, I don't have to have a satin pillow. But it protects the curls. And so then in the morning when I take off the bonnet, and I just shake out my hair, surprisingly, I mean, it looks pretty good. I don't have to do much to the curl. Yeah, and then a lot of people follow different second day. Hair methods, I don't really do a lot I have done where you put in a spray bottle, just one part conditioner, one part, water, and then just spritz a little and try and scrunch. It's always scrunching and refresh the curl that way. Generally the second day here I can just wear and then the third day here maybe and then maybe I'm putting it in a headband and stuff like that. The biggest challenge for me is the hair around my face is so so curly that sometimes by date for I might, which is this is totally taboo for the curly girl method, but I'll straighten it, you know, they're big on No, you know, no he irons and all of that stuff. Now you will you'll iron it to curly shapes. It depends. Sometimes I'll straighten it so that I do headband with like a bump. Or I've tried these, these kind of beachy curls. You know, for the front. Sometimes they look kind of crazy, but just something to have a little bit of smoothness around my face. I I like how your bangs do yours are a little more tame around your face. Yeah, mine's a little bit the you know, it's the opposite. Yeah, well, cool. I considering Oh, I know, I definitely need to get on the cotton, drying my hair without the towel. I would be interested to try the little bonnet situation because I'm always trying to minimize the amount of time and so I'll go through my routine really quickly, your your hair at night. That's very elaborate. Yeah, yeah, and I'm, I don't always feel like doing it. But I want to also have good air the next day. So I have I will wash my hair probably once a week. I get it, you know, in various stages of goodness for about a week. So I will start with I've lately begun cleansing with it's by the same company kinky, curly. It's come clean. And it's a natural moisturizing shampoo. And I like it because it doesn't I like the clean feeling on my scalp is but that it also helps to detangle a little bit because that's always the thing in the shower is working out all the knots. And then I have for the conditioning. Like I already said the trust of a flawless curls conditioner. And I get both of these just at Target actually I get all these products at Target. And so I'll just condition with that and I will work it through and finger comb in the shower. And then what I'll actually do what has kind of worked for me is once I sort of squeeze the water out once I've rinsed it all out, I'll take a little bit of the same conditioner, the trust of my one and put a little bit of it back in my hair towards the ends. Just to help you know keeping some of that moisture but just a very small amount and then I will dry my hair. And boo boo I'm curious to see What it'll do to not have that level of, of potential frizz. But then when my hair is kind of damp, I have lately over the past, I don't know, maybe six months, I have been running a paddle brush through it. I think that it sometimes it helps. What is that? It's just like a big square. Brush, wash. Yeah, brush. While it's while it's damp. If I were to brush my hair while it's dry, terrible, terrible, oh my goodness. But it's only because I have found that rather than thicker pieces of hair joining in one curl. If I brushed through it once, it'll be smaller sections of hair that will create individual curls. So sometimes I like to do that. I think it's been working for me just to do one quick brush through while it's damp and then never again. And then I put in I have two products by the company Shea Moisture. I put in their Jamaican Black Castor Oil, strengthen and restore leave in conditioner. And that is my leaving and I liked the way it smells. I have liked it so far. She's testing it out. That's you're leaving conditioner that that's, that's more comparable to my like Krim relay stuff. Oh, right, right. And so then the last one, this is slightly less thick. By the same company Shea Moisture. This is a coconut and hibiscus curl enhancing smoothie. So they get us with the names and stuff too. Because yeah, it all sounds so nice that one has. It's a silk protein and neem oil. And it's sort of to define the curls. So that's what I'll put in. And I'll scrunch, you know, begin the scrunching. And then I do not like to use the hairdryer most of the time because I don't know if it's because I'm not patient enough. But it takes forever and I ended up with frizz, though, maybe I could, you know, maybe that's because I use the towel, I don't know. But um, so I usually let it air dry. And just accept the fact that the first day, the volume is going to be out of whack because as I've said, my main my main fight has been with volume. So what I have done for the past several years in the evening, to get the volume that I want is when I go to bed, I will take sections of my hair just in my hand and I'll spritz it with a little bit of water. And I'll just sort of scrunch it as in the same scrunching action but scrunch up against my head, and then I'll pin that section down. And then I'll just go around my whole head. And with my bangs, sometimes I will curl them over my finger, sort of like a pin curl. And then I will just sort of have these little sections pinned all around my head, I'll wrap it in a scarf and sleep like that. That does take a good like solid five minutes that I don't want to spend every night. But when I take it out, I try to retain the natural curl shape as much as I can when I pin it. And so then when I take the curl that when I take the bobby pins out, it just has all of this volume that I love it and the curl shape tends to be retained in the fact that my head hasn't been you know all over the pillow and getting frizz it looks so much better than when I just throw it up in a top knot and go to sleep. Now that is my usual process. I do it about once a week and then I can keep it going by pinning it up at night. I would love to try this bonnet. And see get you on it. Yeah and and as long as it will stay on my head. Then I would love to try that I do sometimes refresh I have two little products that I'll sometimes use during the week. One is by Aussie. Or Ozzy not sure. Miracle curls second day curl activator and it's just sort of it's like a spray gel serum. And I think that it helps sometimes with stuff that has been freezing a little bit. And then sometimes depending on the way my hair is curling and the vibe I'm trying to kit I will use the Not Your Mother's beach babe texturizing sea salt spray. I know like I don't know, five to seven years ago, everybody was putting the sea salt spray their hair, just for a little bit of texture. And sometimes I will even use sometimes I put like avocado or different oils on my face as part of my skincare routine but sometimes I'll put a little a couple drops on my fingers and run them through just to help bring back some of the moisture if something is has a lot of flyaways and that's usually what I do. So it's a similar steps. I don't know how I ended up With these products, it's just been a lot of trial and error, as I'm sure it has been with you. Yeah, I think the the biggest thing for me lately has been the hair cut that I've gotten, which really, it's just lots of layers. Yeah, basically, I've begun getting layers when my hair is cut starting at my cheekbone, rather than at my chin as I had done in the past. And my hair falls only to I mean, it rests on my shoulders. But when it's really curly, it doesn't go too far past my shoulders. When my hair is properly cut, I'm gonna cut this week, I'm really excited. I can do my my little leave in conditioner and the products and stuff. And even on that first day, I feel like the shape of it is okay, which has never happened before in my life. It's not as curly because I feel like it needs the the pinning process or at least the the drying and like the sleeping on it for it to get all of its curly self. But it doesn't look bad. No, because of the way the volume and the bangs go around my face. Yeah, yeah, no, it's very, very flattering, I I actually go in a couple of weeks to get mine overhauled because I have to cover the gray and highlights and whatnot. But I have to get the layers all redone as well. And it's funny because we go to the same hairdresser. But she doesn't necessarily do the curly girl method. So I'll actually get my hair cut and instruct kind of what I want, then I'll go into her bathroom, because she knows to wet it all down for me. And I'll go in the bathroom, and then do this whole process in order to because it's like I can't even really know what the curls going to look like until I do and then it kind of reestablishes all the curls again. And then I know kind of what the haircut look like. Now I do straighten my hair, which is an another. No, no, no, no no are, are just not as advised. And, and for a long time after I started the curly girl method, I wouldn't straighten my hair. And then I wanted to just see. And I was curious, like, will it wreck my hair? Will I be able to go back to curly, and I'm pretty pleased I can go straight with it for several weeks, go and do my whole curly girl method. And it just goes right back. So I'm pretty happy with that. I do that to straighten my hair. Yeah, from time to time. And yeah, it just goes right back once I wash it. But with when I go to the hairdresser, she she already knows like, she doesn't take it personally. I go in there and do my thing. And then then I know how it turned out because I've done my whole process. So what kinds of like hair shapes or in like hair cuts have worked for you. I know that. Since I've been here you've had hair of varying lengths. And I've just I'm so pleased with my bangs and my haircut. And I'm curious what what do you think has worked with your curl type. The biggest challenge for me has been also volume I think it is for a lot of curly girls. And as beautiful as I think long spirals that I'll see on other other women look is beautiful on me, I get that triangle head very, very easily. And because the hair around my face is so curly, and I feel like it is unruly. I finally learned you know, layers are my friend. And so when I did get that diva cut, and I was curious how they were going to approach it because you kind of give them a lot of wiggle room to do what they want, when they think it's gonna look best. They gave me a lot of short layers on the top of my head and then longer on the side. And it was I liked it. I liked the lift. So even though I don't go there, I did get like a shag cut that was it's funny because this time with the shag. And knowing what to do with it, it was really beautiful is when I was a kid that and it was too short. It just it was a mess. And that's actually what I'm going to be doing in a couple of weeks because I need to shorten up those layers that's getting too much weight on the top of my head again. So layers, obviously, that's what you got to do. Yeah, I found that when the hair itself is shorter, the curl can be more defined. Like it's not weighed down with the length. My brother, your uncle has very, very curly hair. And a couple of years ago, I told him about the curly girl method and it changed his life. Now he's a curly girl. He is a curly girl. And so And what's cool is his hair. He you know, as early as in his 20s started to gray. And so he's a year younger than me he's 46 and his hair is I would say 99% grades, beautiful spiral curls and when he learned not to to shampoo it but to just do this curl process, it just transformed it is beautiful long spirals. And I think he grows a little impatient with second day hair, third day hair and so on. So eventually it starts getting you know, pulled up, but even then it's like this beautiful, like cool texture. Yeah, cool bun, you know, and with his spirals, and so every time he visits I like, give them a little like, you know, try a hair bonnet. And I was like him in the bonnet. Yeah, some other little steps and all, but it really, really also helped define his curls. So I mean, it's called the curly girl method. Obviously, it's just the curly hair method. But anyone can be a curly girl. Yeah. So it seems that if you are someone who wants to try to embrace the curl of your hair, the worst things that you could do would be to wash with a shampoo will have sulfates and never condition right? Not condition, dry your hair with a towel. And then put no moisturizing products in and brush your hair. And then brush your hair. Yes. And then and then. And then it'll just be big, frizzy. Without any I feel like so many people who think they have frizzy hair really just have curls. That's all that that is. For the most part. That's that's what it is. I see people sometimes I'm like, Oh, give me your just give me your hair. All it needs is some good good conditioning. And they have these beautiful spirals they don't even know so what would you say to someone as we sort of like bring this full circle? What would you say to someone who wants to try like what would be a good place to start? Because all of these different products and things can seem daunting? What do you think would be like a good place to start to try and embrace the girl probably if you were trying not to get too too weird and or whatever to different. I'd say get a shampoo and a separate conditioner that are in the shampoo is sulfate free. Make sure it's sulfate free, and the conditioner is silicone free. So then you wash your hair and you condition your hair and then get a leave in conditioner. Okay, a leave in conditioner and scrunch, scrunch, scrunch, and scrunching is just the action of what gathering some hearing gathering and just and just stitching it together when your hand towards your head and I would pick one styling product, you could do the gel or you could do a cream, because the leaving conditioner is just that it's just leaving more conditioner in your hair, but a styling product I guess it's supposed to help kind of just define it here that shape and just scrunch, scrunch, scrunch, and if you don't have a diffuser, you know, try air drying. I don't particularly like to air dry mine because it does feel so flat and doesn't really the curls don't get quite as springy. But but to try to dry your hair with a with a blow dryer without the diffuser. No not at all that when you use a diffuser, I just use a diffuser attachment on my hairdryer. And you kind of just let a pile of hair sit on the diffuser end and just kind of hold it up to your close to your head and just scrunch it and just stand there you just stay put you don't move it around. You're just letting that air kind of it's diffusing the air all through the hair there. It's in the shape. Yeah, the curl. It's magical. It just brings it right up. And I do think even though I don't love to diffuse I think that would be a good way to really see the curl define when you dry it with the diffuser. Your brother's hair was beautiful. Was it that last week I saw him? No, that's just a hair product that he bought that made his hair curl I'd ever seen. I know he uses he uses I think it's called Miss Jessie's curl jelly or something like that. Jelly curls or something. Yeah, but he Yeah, his is pretty wavy. Well, yeah, I think that's a good place to start. And if anyone listening feels that they just they don't know. They have like, thick, weird, coarse frizzy hair. No, you don't you just have curly hair. Looking for moisture. Yeah, looking for moisture out in the world. Well, thank you for sharing mom with with me and with everyone, how you and thereby also how I found a curly routine that works. And I think that it's always sort of evolving. And you know, you find what works best for you and however much time you're able to give it and I think it's funny because people say Oh, curly hair. You never have to do anything. It looks so pretty. And it's like oh my gosh, and people with curly hair. Like, I can't make it do anything I want. Right? So it's like one is when someone asks, Is that a natural curl? I think through what method could you get this random assortment of girls that I have right now? We're getting a perm hair cutter. But yeah, that I think with curly hair. It's kind of learning to cooperate with it. Like, yeah, embrace it and cooperate with it versus gonna do right. Okay, well, mom, before you before you go before we sit before we have more of our tea. I would like to know what is your little joy this week? What is something that has brought you? A little bit of joy could be a moment it could be a physical thing. I like to ask my guests this every time. I like to know what's what's been a joy of your week. I know I've seen you several times this week, likely more superficial joy came Saturday when I found these boho overalls. I wasn't expecting to find that. However, that's so superficial. I'm so excited to wear them. I was like did not go in there looking to try those on. But I couldn't live without them. But last night was a was a sweet joy. We it wasn't quite as chilly as it had been for a few days. And so I had straightened up the back porch and put the twinkle lights on. And then when I don't know who has that said that, you know, Krishna turned the lights off. And I thought well, what's going on? And he had set up the whole movie projector. In this time. It was like your sister put out they put out the double seat and we had and Josh had his his sleeping bag. Blanket. Got the good speaker. Yeah, the good speaker. I mean, it was so sweet. In the back outside, it looked nice. I had watered the plants finally it just looked very, very nice inside outside. And we watched the next part of of Lord of the Rings. And it was just so nice and sweet. And I didn't expect it and so I love that. Yeah, everyone listening has been getting the the updates of the token autumn that I've that we've been loving. But that was really nice. Yeah, Josh had brought his beanbag and a sleeping bag, which he put on a blanket on the grass. And, and and your overalls. We're not looking forward to wearing them. Okay, well, thank you, mom for coming back on the podcast. Thank you for having me. This is fun. Yeah, it was so far we talked about weddings and hair and all of it on a budget. So yeah. And there you go. I hope you enjoyed our very in depth but laid back conversation. And that you're inspired to maybe try something different in your hair routine. Perhaps you are like me, you will join me in finding something of cotton to dry my hair when. And I'm curious to see how that will affect. You know, I'm always looking to see how I can better embrace my hair's texture. And if you have any ideas or products that you enjoy, if you have curly hair, feel free to either leave a comment on the blog post or to reach out to me because I would love to know what you use. And perhaps we can help each other. Further enjoy our hair instead of fight with it. So real quick, before we go. I want to of course leave you with an album of music. I think that this one is perfect for this time. Basically from October to the end of the year. We all know it is Vince Guaraldi 24/7 in our hearts. Vince Guaraldi if you're unfamiliar as the composer for all the music for the Charlie Brown films, so I'm going to recommend to you the album, The Charlie Brown suite and other favorites. It was an album released in 2003. And it's with full band arrangements. So it's only 10 tracks, but it has all the classics of Charlie Brown theme Linus and Lucy. But it's with a larger instrumentation than we hear most of the time. And so whether you are someone who says it's November it's officially Christmas time. Or if you say no, I need to wait until Thanksgiving for Christmas. This is not a an explicitly Christmas album. It's just nice, cozy holidays, autumn winter. So feel free to check out that album. I'm going to link it in the show notes. And if you would like to and have not yet done so feel free to go to Apple podcasts and give this show a star rating. Or even better a review of why you liked the show. It's excellent feedback for me and for potential listeners. And it just it absolutely makes my day. Whenever I hear from people who enjoyed the show. It just really warms my heart and I love feedback. So but regardless, I wish you a very lovely fall week. I will be back next week for our last episode of November. Right before Thanksgiving, so until then, happy fall and have a lovely week. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Life on the brink. If you're enjoying these episodes, please feel free to leave a star rating or even better leave a review on Apple podcasts to help spread the word. For podcast show notes and extra inspirational posts throughout the week. Head to the blog at life on the brink dot live. And if you'd like a little extra dose of inspiration in your life, sign up for the monthly newsletter, which lights up your inbox the first Friday of each month. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, friends, you have a lovely week. Bye